Great Idea! We Can Stop Him Before He Goes Too Far!

Judiciary Committee muses impeaching George W. Bush.

read the whole train-wreck after the link.

from the article:

Too Little, Too Late? Lawmakers Talk Impeachment
Less Than Six Months Before Bush Leaves Office, Partisan Debate Erupts

By TOM GIUSTO
WASHINGTON, July 25, 2008—

Less than six months before President Bush leaves office, the House Judiciary Committee held a hearing today on whether he should be impeached.

As could be predicted, the hearing was highly partisan. Democrats said they wanted accountability. Republicans called the hearing a show trial. People on both sides showed anger and emotion.

The hearing was about executive power and its constitutional limitations. The Democrat-controlled Judiciary Committee is concerned the Bush administration exceeded its authority in several areas including the following: improper politicization of the Justice Dept; misuse of presidential signing statements; misuse of surveillance, detention, interrogation and rendition programs; manipulation of intelligence and misuse of war powers; improper retaliation, and obstruction of justice in the Valerie Plame CIA agent outing case, and misuse of executive privilege.

There were 13 witnesses including current and former members of Congress, most of whom accused the Bush administration of abuse of power. Democrats and Republicans on the Committee spent an hour on opening statements presenting their opinions either justifying Bush's actions or accusing him of being the worst president in U.S. history.

Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., chairman of the committee, defended holding such a hearing while the president was on his way out of office.

"And we're not done yet," Conyers said. "We do not intend to go away until we achieve the accountability that the Congress is entitled to and the American people deserve."

Ranking Republican member Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, disagreed.

"This week it seems that we are hosting an anger management class," he said. "Nothing is going to come out of this hearing with regard to impeachment of the president."

But Democrat member Rep. Robert Wexler of Florida was angry at the president.

"Never before in the history of this nation has an administration so successfully diminished the constitutional powers of the legislative branch," Wexler said. "It is unacceptable, and it must not stand."

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., didn't mince words in her feelings about Bush.

"It is my judgment that President Bush is the worst president our country has ever suffered," she said. "Making judgments that have jeopardized our national security, impaired our economy, and diminished the freedom and civil liberties of the American people."

Link Love

Thanks, inessentialmusings, for the link love -- and very kind write-up on a post long-past (which I was proud of, but which never got the kind of response I'd hoped it would.)

Suddenly I Feel Better. . .

Matt from PopularGusts has, in his own inimitable style, offered up the thoroughly researched history of complaining expats in Korea. . . a fascinating way to give context to the complaining expat discussion going around right now.

And it sure helps to know how far we've come, just by a glance at the nature of the gripes: at least these days, we're complaining about labyrinthine banking practices and crooked taxi drivers, rather than Koreans' "need of soap" . . . "and bibles"

Wow. The more I read, the less I can choose a "best quote" -- get over there and read this thing. Let's just say that if blogs existed back then, instead of forming colonial plans, Japan would probably just have said "Meh. Sounds like too much work."

Meanwhile the complaining expats can take pride in taking part in a century old tradition.

Who knew.

(but then as now, long-term expats were. . . oh just read the post.)

At least those guys had flair: this guy chose to do his bitching and moaning in verse.
"The houses they live in are mostly of dirt,
With a tumble-down roof made of thatch;
Where soap is unknown, it's safe to assert,
And where vermin in myriads hatch;
The streets are reeking with odors more rife
Than the smell from a hyena's den;
One visit is surely enough for one's life
To that far-away land of Chosen."

Which might be something I'll try. It's been a while since I've written much poetry.

New blogoseyo rule:

when the same old Korea topics come up again (scapegoats, Liandokashima Rockdo, etc.), I shall henceforward only write about them in verse.

I'd ask Matt if he plans to do a history of Korean complaints about Korea, but that might take a while, and go back a long time: I'm pretty sure that Ungnyeo, the bear who became a woman (by hiding in a cave and eating nothing but mugwort and garlic for a hundred days) and bore Dangun, Korea's founder, scratched "This place sucks" on the cave floor while she waited.

This is not your Grandmother's Beethoven.

In early 2006, Beethoven's Ninth, along with the poet Rainer Maria Rilke, counseled me through a pretty grimy bit of grief. For about two months, Bruce Springsteen's Thunder Road, Arcade Fire's "Neighbourhood #1(Tunnels)" and Beethoven's Ninth, movements four and five, were all that got me up enough to face my classrooms of students.

If only I'd had this, back then, when I needed it.

(ht to Collegehumor.com)


And. . . Strauss.

Dang, I love the muppets!

Before you Plan your Summer Vacation. . . Jeollanam-do, by Brian

Summer Vacation is coming almost finished too hot to do anything anyway finally here!

[In order to help you plan YOUR summer vacation, or your Autumn three-day getaway, I posed this challenge to Brian from Jeollanam-do, a good friend of blogoseyo:

"Given a three day weekend, what would you recommend a person do in Jeollanam-do?"

Brian did me about seven times better than anything I'd hoped for, with this amazing, extensive, well-linked, varied and informative guest-post.

I hope to answer this same question about my stomping grounds, Seoul, in the very near future, in case he ever feels like getting away from all the tea fields and rice paddies and bamboo forests for a bit of car exhaust, glass, steel, and neon light. If you're in Korea, and especially if you live outside Seoul, I'd be very happy to link or post your three day weekend recommendations, too. Busan, Daegu, Gyungsan Province, Chungcheong Province, Gangwon, Daejeon, Dokdo -- let me know how to enjoy your area to the fullest! (And I'll share that with everybody else, too).

Here is his delightful, meticulously prepared, informative to the extreme, and very helpful answer.]

Hyangiram at sunrise.

Rob has always been a friend of my blog, and so I was more than happy to write a little something about Jeollanam-do for his site. Not happy enough to get around to writing it in a timely manner, mind you, but happy nonetheless. In all fairness typing "a little something" isn't as easy for me as it is for my peers in Seoul and Busan. As you know, outside of Seoul the hallmarks of civilization are spotty at best, and it's not like I can just sit down in front of a computer---com-pu-ter?---and bang something out. And even if I could, we only have electricity four hours a week, and I like others in my little fishing village use it almost exclusively for the publication of Communist pamphlets. But during final exam time at my Confucian academy I was able to sneak out for a few weeks and travel north along Jeollanam-do's road and into Gwangju's general store to put in some time on our province's wordprocessor. The trip took longer than expected because the road was full of protestors participating in a stick rally against American beef. They haven't invented fire in Gwangju yet, so we've been immune from the insane candlelight riots that have taken hold in Korea's capital.

Some people will say the above description is spot-on, and there are many, Koreans and foreigners alike, who swear that there is no life in Korea outside of Seoul. I wish I were a little more knowledgable about the regional differences of Korea and the nuances of Jeolla to say something more than "um . . . it's kind of like everywhere else." There are political differences, of course, and a bit of a dialect, and there's definitely a bias against Jeolla folk among others in the country. To be fair every region in the country dislikes every other region for some reason or other, which kind of runs counter to the business of jeong and of a unified, happy Korean race we're always hearing about. Oh, that and the whole Korean War thing.

South Jeolla on a Map of Korea [from Galbijim]

Anyway, as far as living in Jeollanam-do goes, I suspect it's not too different than living in most of the country's other administrative divisions. In fact, I'm busy enough with work and other things that I'm pretty sure I'd spend my weekdays in Seoul the same way I do now in Suncheon. Visiting is a different story, and Jeollanam-do is a popular tourist destination among foreigners. Rob suggested I write about a hypothetical three-day weekend here, because a lot of people take advantage of our holidays to pay a visit to, as the official website tells us, this "promising future-oriented place with clean air, clean water and pure lands." There are, in fact, a number of interesting development projects afoot in the area, which is what that slogan presumably refers to. They just built a new international airport last year, were awarded the 2012 World Expo, are building an entirely new city around the relocated provincial capitol, are gearing up for Korea's first F1 races in 2010. Jeollanam-do is also home to Korea's space station, to a number of sacred temples, to the highest peak and the southernmost point on peninsular South Korea, and Gwangju holds one of the country's premiere arts festivals, the Bienalle, every two years.

It's a little difficult to come up with a three-day itinerary, and you can tell that I'm stalling, mostly because the top spots are spread out across the entire province, rather than being collected into a single city. Moreover it's possible to actually spend three days just in Suncheon and Yeosu, for example, and there are tons of underrated tourist sites in every city and county down here. But what follows is a sample course that people might find helpful when they're planning a trip through the region. I will also say, before I get into the major attractions, that spring and fall are excellent times to visit because there are tons of well-known festivals, and you might take those into account when visiting. I'll be publishing a list of fall festivals in the region in late-August, and I mentioned a few spring festivals back in May. Planning your trip around the festivals will mean dealing with crowds, but you'll also have a convenient, pre-set itinerary.

Anyway, here is a collection of attractions that would make for a pleasant trip in the region. I've started with Suncheon and Yeosu, moved to Boseong, west to Mokpo and Wando, and finally north to Damyang and Gwangju. I've also included other points of interest that . . . that might be of interest, and I've tried to provide bus information to the best of my ability. Obviously having a car would be most convenient and would cut down on time spent waiting for village buses that are often few and far between.

County Map of South Jeolla Province

The sites below cannot all be squeezed into three days, so a couple different combinations that follow the east-to-west pattern include:

- Suncheon - Gurye - Boseong - Damyang
- Suncheon - Yeosu - Boseong - Damyang
- Yeosu - Mokpo - Wando - Gwangju
- Gwangju - Boseong - Damyang
- Gwangju - Wolchulsan - Boseong

You get the idea. Anyway, yeah, the post.

Suncheon

Suncheon Bus Tour: A good idea for those who don't want to worry about finding their own way around town might try the Suncheon City Bus Tour. It boards a little before 9 am every day and follows one of two courses to the city's major attractions, including: Seonamsa and Songgwangsa Temples, Nagan Folk Village, Suncheon Bay, and the Suncheon Drama Set. It finishes at 6 pm where it begins, in front of the Tourist Information Center at Suncheon Station. Inquiries can be made by calling 82-61-749-3328.

Nagan Folk Village (낙안읍성민석마을): Those not doing the bus tour may want to try a few sites individually. Nagan Folk Village, some 25 kilometers outside downtown Suncheon, is considered the best-preserved folk village in the country. Each spring there is a folk culture festival and each fall is the popular Namdo Food Festival held at the Folk Village. It is accessible via local buses 63 and 68, though they only run a combined 19 times each day and it's thus a good idea to head out there first thing in the morning. You can find out what time the buses will come by visiting the tourist information center in front of Suncheon Station, or you can make an educated guess by searching the online timetable.

Seonamsa Temple: My personal favorite temple in Suncheon, it is especially pretty in the spring and fall. Seonamsa and Songgwangsa are both on Jogyesan mountain and are connected by a long trail that goes over the peak. Bus number 1 runs regularly to Seonamsa, and passes by Suncheon Station and the Intercity Bus Terminal, among other places.

Suncheon Dongcheon (Source - Brian)

Nearby attractions: Dongcheon is a stream that runs through the city, between the bus terminal and Suncheon Station. It is a very pleasant area for a stroll . . . Jukdobong Park overlooks the city and the stream and is best accessed via taxi . . . Those spending the night in the city might want to try visit one of the designated quote-unquote foreigner bars: Elvis or Julianna's . . . Gurye county is north of Suncheon and is home to part of Jirisan National Park, which contains the highest peak on peninsular South Korea. Three days could be spent entirely in Gurye, so see this very informative post on hiking trails, this category on "Jirisan," the blog entry here, or this treasure trove by David Mason for more information and decide accordingly. Piagol Valley is an especially popular destination in the fall, when the maples change color.

Accommodation: There are clusters of love motels around Suncheon Station, the Intercity Bus Terminal, Homeplus, and the east side of "New Downtown" in Yeonhyang-dong. The ones around Homeplus are the newest, and are probably the cleanest, and rates start around 35,000 a night for your basic room. It will be about a 4,000 won cab ride from Suncheon Station or you can reach the area via buses 59 or 101.


Yeosu

(Hyangiram [source])

Hyangiram: I consider Hyangiram (향일암) a must-see for anyone coming to Jeollanam-do, along with the tea fields in Boseong and the bamboo forests in Damyang. Hyangiram is a gorgeous hermitage on the tip of Dolsan Island overlooking the sea. It is separated by the cute village below by 291 steps. There are a number of shrines that climb up the 323-meter-high Geomunsan. Local buses 111 and 113 go to Hyangiram and can be caught across the street from the Yeosu bus terminal. The trip takes between 70 and 80 minutes, so this is something I'd recommend doing first thing in the morning. There is a good write-up available from KBS Global.

Dolsan Bridge [source]

Dolsan Bridge and Dolsan Park: At 450 meters long, Dolsan Bridge is considered the longest cable-stayed bridge in Korea. Folks in Jindo also make that claim of theirs, so who knows, but Dolsan Bridge joins Dolsan island to the mainland, and cycles between 50-some different colors at night. The park is pleasant enough during the day, but is definitely worth a visit at night. If crossing the bridge from the mainland, to the right you'll see a couple of interesting things. There is a replica "turtle ship," since Admiral Lee Sun-shin is said to have invented them in Yeosu. And just to the right of the bridge on the Dolsan side is a harbor with a number of small cruise ships. I recommend taking one of these cruises around the outlying islands.

Nearby attractions: There are two beaches roughly ten minutes away from the bus terminal by cab, Manseongni and Mosageum. Manseongni is the quote-unquote famed quote-unquote black-sand beach, although the sand there is actually brown . . . Yeosu has lots of outlying islands, including Geomun-do, home of Port Hamilton, a short-lived British naval station in the late 19th century . . . Odong-do is another very popular attraction in Yeosu.

Accommodation: There are a couple of motels close to the bus terminal. Also a ton in Hak-dong, an area near Turtle Park and Yeosu City Hall with some restaurants, bars, and a movie theater. Suncheon is 40 minutes away by bus, and buses back and forth run until midnight, so you could base yourself out of that city.


Boseong Green Tea Fields

Boseong Tea Fields

The tea fields are another must-see, and are something pretty much every Korean and foreigner that passes through the area visits. Originally established by the Japanese during Occupation, there are several different plantations today with panoramic views of seemingly undulating rows of green tea plants. Tea is the representative product of Boseong, as 40% of the country's green tea comes from there, and if you visit the largest plantation---called 대한다원---you can buy all kinds of green tea products and green tea food. There are likewise a number of festivals held at the plantation, including the Green Tea Festival in May and the Seopyeonje Pansori Festival in October. It's best to avoid both the tea fields and the bamboo forest in Damyang in winter because the greenery won't be nearly as green.

More of the Boseong Tea Fields

Nearby attractions: Daewonsa temple is a local favorite among foreigners here. Not only is it beautiful and strikingly colorful, especially in spring, but there is a Tibetan Museum. There are sporadic buses from Boseong-eup and Beolgyo-eup . . . Yulpo Beach and the Yulpo Green Tea Baths are a short distance from the Green Tea Fields, and have gotten mixed reviews. For swimming, Sumun Beach in neighboring Jangheung county is preferrable, and it's only 9 kilometers west of Yulpo.

Accommodation: There are lots of quite little pension in Boseong near the Green Tea Fields. They are of course much more expensive than love motels but might be a nice time if you're travelling with that special someone. Have a look around Naver. Boseong is roughly an hour away from Suncheon, so if you wanted you could continue to base yourself out of that city.

Mokpo and Wando

I don't care that much about Mokpo, but folks say it's a nice city. I'm going to have to defer to the blog A Year in Mokpo and his write-ups on museums, bars, and the local favorite "Love Island." Also check out his post on Bigeum-do, an island in Sinan county accessible by ferry from the city.

Myeongsashimni [source]

Wando is one of Jeollanam-do's four counties comprised entirely or mostly out of islands. Its Myeongsashimni Beach is a regional favorite. The only downside is that Wando is pretty far from everything else---between 2h40m and 3h10m by bus from Gwangju---and would eat up an entire day. As with other cities and counties here, you could even spend an entire 3-day weekend in Wando. The aforementioned Myeongsashimni (명시십리해수욕장) is pretty much the best beach in Jeollanam-do, and though it's on the island of Shinji-do, it's still regularly accessible by buses from Wando-eup. Other points of interest include its impressive movie sets, Gugyedong Pebble Beach, and outlying islands like Bogil-do and Cheongsan-do. Having visited tons of places in Jeollanam-do already, if I had about a week to play with, I'd like to see more of Wando.

Wolchulsan

Wolchulsan (월출산) is popular little mountain and national park in Yeongam county. The mountain rises to 808.7 meters, is in the country's smallest national park, and has a bunch of attractions, including a sculpture park and a suspension bridge. Called the "Cloud Bridge" (구름다리) it is 120 meters long and spans two peaks some 510 meters high.

It is easy to get to the mountain's entrance from the bus terminal in Yeongam-eup, though it's best to set out for Yeongam early in the morning because not all local bus terminals run there frequently, and you may have to first visit Gwangju or Gangjin, or have to endure a lengthy ride that stops at every town and village along the way. And people of all shapes and ages have climbed Wolchulsan, though as with Jirisan, it's important to come adequately prepared and to be aware of your limitations.

There are a few love motels in Yeongam, though if your body odor isn't too offensive you might opt to move right to the infinitely more interesting Gwangju, where you can clean up and rest up before either trying out that city's nightlife or before going to Damyang the next day.

Gangjin county isn't exactly close, but does border on Wolchulsan, and as I used to live there I am kind of partial to it. Those who've been to Jeonnam before and are looking for other stuff to do---and who have their own transportation---might be intersted in visiting the idiosyncratic Nammireuksa or Omcheonsa temples

Damyang Bamboo Forest

(Damyang Bamboo Forest [source])

This is the third must-see I've mentioned so far. It is a massive bamboo forest located in Damyang county, just outside of Gwangju. Numerous movies and TV dramas have been shot here---all have survived---and are commemorated with plaques posted throughout the forest. Apparently Ha Ji-won, number one on my list of sexy Korean women, did a fight scene in the forest for some drama or other. And, the rumor on the street is that a friend of a friend of a friend was her private English tutor while Ji-won was filming in the area. Why I was not invited to meat (HA!) meet her has not yet been accounted for.

[I guess we'll never know -Roboseyo]

[Ha Ji-Won, below]

Unfortunately, bus travel between the terminal and the forest is a bit tricky, as according to KBS only four buses head each way each day. (A map I have at home says six per day). I went first thing in the morning once, but was told that buses didn't start heading to the forest until 11:30. I likewise had to wait roughly an hour before heading back into town. Damyang is pretty dull, and if you end up having to wait for the bus you can wander around Damyang-eup to experience a typical Jeollanam-do town, if you haven't already, but except for the bamboo forest there's not much else to see, so you can head back to Gwangju in the afternoon. Damyang does have Soswaewon, a large Joseon-era garden, although buses go there from Gwangju not Damyang. There is also a Metasequoia Road (담양 메타세쿼이아 길), one that was named one of Korea's 100 most beautiful roads in 2006.

Gwangju

Wonhyosa (Source - Brian)

Gwangju is a pleasant and convenient enough city for locals to visit every now and then, but it offers little more than high-rise apartments as far as the eye can see. It has a great bus terminal, though, and is a good place to first enter or exit Jeollanam-do. If you find yourself in the city for the better part of the day, try the May 18th Cemetery or Mudeungsan. The cemetery is accessible via the aptly-numbered bus 518, and is the final resting place of the victims of the 1980 Gwangju Massacre. Mudeungsan is a 1,187-meter-high mountain in on the edge of the city, the centerpiece of Mudeungsan Provincial Park, and according to a professor friend in the city, it's where her students often go for dates, for some reason. You can hike it or can take buses or cars to the top. The lofty Wonhyosa (원효사) temple, overlooking a valley, is nice.

Different people have different styles when travelling. Some like to fill every minute of every day with something, while others would rather just visit one or two places each day. I’ve tried to include a bunch of sites, big and small, to appeal to both sets. It is impractical, though, to try and hit Suncheon, Yeosu, Boseong, Gwangju, Mokpo, and Wando in two-and-a-half days. Pick out a couple “must sees” to book-end your trip and take into account how long you’ll spend there and how long it will take to get in and out, and how convenient transportation will be to other sites. If you supplement your trip with another couple sites along the way, you should have a pleasant visit, one that will give you lots of good pictures and one that will allow you to experience something pretty different than what you’re used to in Seoul. Those with any questions can email me at deutsch.brian[at]gmail.com, and I’ll try to help.

Back-Home Familoseyo, and Gord.

Gord Sellar completed his trilogy on "Who's Complaining in Korea" and the shocks of speedy modernity here, with a science fiction fable about the leap into post-modernity. Worth the read.  Thanks, Gord, for putting your hat in the ring.  I was glad to read it.

Wangkon has a comment worth reading up on the Marmot's Hole discussion board about this topic.

My nephew in Canada has been in and out of the hospital with different stuff . . . you can learn more about it on my sister-in-law's concise, cute, and occasionally hilarious blog, here. I'm gonna give you a few pictures:


Silas, resembling the heck out of his dad:

One milk allergic reaction later:  sick baby.



How's that for a sick baby smile?

(so I'm a proud uncle. Sue me.)

Looking about as world-weary as a four month-old can. . .

He's been in the hospital a bunch of times for one thing and another, but every time he goes home, we hope it'll stick. Until then -- he sure does seem wise beyond his months. An old soul. Maybe eight months.

My sister's baby, Aria, has had a much smoother ride so far (though the pregnancy and birth were bumpy).

My sister Deb was a beautiful pregnant woman, and now she's a beautiful mom (and an awesome lots-of-other-things, too):


Looking ready to take all comers (her dad is a really great photographer)


Not happy about the comers that done came.

all pictures from their respective blogs.

Satire Superhero

Eddie Paradise has posted this brilliant deconstruction of an Ajeosshi-do performance, an ancient, rarely-recognized but often-practiced Korean martial art, and a candidate for Korean cultural treasure #181818.

http://www.seouleats.com/2008/07/treatise-on-korean-martial-arts-sequel.html

The scene is anywhere in Seoul at past your bedtime. Any casual person walking around may not be aware of what is about to happen. A plastic chair scrapes on pavement and a voice is raised. The antiphonal section answers back slightly louder. All heads turn and prepare to bear witness, for tonight shall bear witness to the ancient, dramatic art that is Ajoshido (the Way of the Ajoshi). What one must bear in mind in any meditation on the subject of Ajoshido is that it has no relation to Ajummahdo. Whereas Ajummahdo is a fighting style created with the intent to kill, maim or punish, much like Abir and Bokator, the Way of the Ajoshi (meaning “married man”) finds itself more firmly rooted in theater.

When a practitioner of the Way scrapes is chair against the pavement to stand (if somewhat shakily) it signals not only to his intended opponent but also to any onlookers that a performance is about to begin. It is analogous to dimming the lights in an enclosed theater, signifying a separation between our humdrum everyday reality and the greater reality of the stage. Without an audience to observe the scene swelling outside the local GS 25, the performance is for naught. Thus an exhibition of Ajoshido requires, nay, demands an audience.

Follow the link and read the rest for yourself.

Related to Ajeosshi-do is the ancient dance "Deuh-long-keun Seuh-tae-geo" the final steps in the dance here being practiced by a few young Koreans, obviously still in training: (warning: ugly -- these Seuh-tae-geo dancers are inexperienced, and unskilled)
-note especially the light footwork from 2.50 to the end

Forget Ping Pong Diplomacy...

I propose b-boy dance-offs as the new way to solve international conflicts.

Korea'd finally match those tiny Northern-European nations (Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Norway, etc.,) in soft power.


North Korea vs. South Korea: as you can see, those B-boys can accomplish things that North Korea, Japan, China, Russia, South Korea, America, and Syria couldn't accomplish. . . put together!


Next, I want to see one of these set on the LianDokashima Rockdo. Settle this thing once and for all.

Weekend of the 12th

While THIS weekend is still in progress, I've edited some videos of what I did LAST weekend.

I especially like the first one. Seoul can be darn beautiful sometimes.

Thursday night and Saturday:


Sunday:


I love rain.

P.S.: thanks, ROKDrop, for the leadoff link love.

Three E-mails I've received on the Complaining Expat topic

As well as a few comments I'd like to highlight:

The e-mails:

Quoted with permission from a non-blogger:

A private comment about your post on expats.

"we Westerners (who, at least among North Americans, have been programmed by movies and stories to go against the grain, and to prefer being right and alone over being wrong with the crowd), might start to push against the flood of Kimcheerleading with a bit of counter-balancing negativity, just so there’s a conversation."

One of the things that has always amused me about Americans is how polarized they are. It seems to be embedded firmly into the way their political, economic, legal and social structures work. And they hate each other. Conservatives loathe liberals, etc. [on the Marmot's hole, too,] It seems to be mainly American expats and American-Koreans who give each other the hardest time and take the most extreme views (there are exceptions and the odd Aussie).

I'd like to think that it was just an American thing but I have to admit it is slowly spreading to the rest of the world. Richard Dawkins is British (I agree with a lot he says but not the way he goes about saying it) and Denmark is becoming increasingly polarized...

Here's something you might find interesting for your study of expats in Korea. There is this forum called http://forum.rokfootball.com/ devoted to soccer in Korea. It's in English and most of the posters are expats (there's the odd Korean). There's virtually no complaining about Korea there, no trolls (the closest they have to a troll is me) and most people are genuinely interested in and supportive of Korea.

Now I can think of three possible reasons for this. Firstly, it's a special interest forum and people don't feel it's the right place to air their Korea-grievances. Secondly, there are very few American commenters (there's the odd Canadian but most of the regulars are European or Kiwis). And thirdly, everybody there has a hobby interest that allows them to both identify with their home country and identify with Korea. They bring their interest in football with them when they arrive. It's not like taking up hapkido or the gayageum, but Korean football is still very...Korean!

Perhaps if more expats had something like football that they could identify with they wouldn't find it so tough."

-- this fits nicely with Gord Sellar's discussion on "the expattes complainte," where he, too, argues that to keep positive, it's very important to get out of the house.

Hey bud.

go climb a mountain.

from a contact who's been in Korea for about as long as I have (five years) - shortened for length and personal information, but otherwise unedited:

I've read yours, The Korean's, Gord's and the others. You guys seem to have covered the bases on that one. And you all are a lot nicer on the expat complainers than I am. Nonetheless, I wouldn't limit it to online experiences. There were people that I met in person who really weren't equipped with that filter many of us have on what was appropriate or inappropriate to say. There was one guy who was new to the country and sounded like he knew everything about Korea and bitched about this "fucking country" every time I saw him--constantly. He had nothing else to talk about. Then we'd leave the bar, trying to shake him, and he'd follow us. Saw a Korean go by with an Engrish t-shirt, rudely stopped her, and laughed in her face because of her t-shirt. I had to apologize to this person for this fuck's behavior.

[picture added by Roboseyo]

[end editorial comment]

Anyway, you guys are being too nice and maybe too analytical. A lot of these guys are losers and people with social functionality problems. They have trouble coping with social situations in their home environments and think things would change when they went overseas, thinking it wasn't their own inadequacies that made people hate them.

Having said that, the analogy of the waiter who smiles all day and then bitches after hours at the bar is spot on.

- [Name]

Gord Sellar's response to my initial "hey, I'm writing about this. . . wanna weigh in?" opened by coining a new word for bloggers working together: "Synerdy," expressed a hope that this will start an interesting conversation online (which I think it has), and also wished there was a way to get some of the well-known Korean language bloggers involved in this funny puzzle of each side's perception of the other. I hope that happens, too.



Another person I'd contacted, whose views I respect a lot, pointed out the sheer scope of the actual question:

On complaining expats:

"I don't think expats in Korea complain any more than in any other countries, even amongst the newbies that are the bulk of them, and doubt I'd be convinced otherwise unless it was argued by someone with extensive experience of travelling and of living overseas in a wide variety of countries. Other than the discussion boards of Dave's Esl Cafe, hardly representative, I see little evidence for expats complaining excessively."

and in a follow-up e-mail, expanding on the idea that some sites and forums seem to get a lot of trolls, this person also noticed that longer, denser posts usually don't get as many trolls, while shorter posts about current events seem to be the ones where the militant k-bashers and k-defenders start grinding their axes.

Food for thought from comment boards:


On my own comment board, Sonagi suggests:

By reading comments at [a wide variety of] different forums, using sorts like most rec'd, and reading longer posts in which commenters explain their thinking, one can get a cross-section of opinions about an event or issue.

doggyji said...



I think it is essential to learn to speak fluent Korean to be the ultimate critic. Maybe you should put one more category for the social critic type. The one who has acquired full Korean language skills, has all the first-hand access to information in Korean and is able to directly interact with Koreans in everyday life.

the very well-travelled Eujin said...

Firstly, I think if you write a well-mannered, thoughtful (and lengthy) piece you're unlikely to attract the attention of the type of people you really want to hear from. It will be interesting to see how many comments you get from people who identify with one of the above categories. We all know who they are.

Secondly, I'm not buying the language lock-out reasoning. I used to work with a lot of expats in London (Americans, Aussies, French...they were there for the money, not for the lifestyle) and they whinged with the best of them.

I don't know why people moan on the internet. I also don't know why people bother arguing with people they don't respect.



from Lunalil

Living here has crystallized my self-perception. Although I’ve always had a strong sense of “Who I am”, I always felt there was something missing that I couldn’t quite verbalize.

Soon after I came to Korea I realized what that missing thing was. I had never really understood my cultural identity (being a white-something from America is pretty generic despite what you may read on Stuff White People Like). Living in Korea forced me to not only realize my cultural identity, but do it while trying to cope with a culture that was radically different in every way. That’s culture shock for you.

People don’t talk about the shock of suddenly coming into awareness of that part your identity when they talk about culture shock. For me it was like having the wind knocked out of you, a big punch of “so this is what it means to be American culturally”, after which I felt silly for having previously considered myself an open-minded, self-aware, and educated person.
I think that the truth is you can’t really judge how open-minded or self-aware you are until you are immersed in a culture that is foreign, preferably a culture that is VERY foreign. Maybe even more than one culture.

Note that I stressed immersed, I don’t think traveling results in the kind of culture shock needed to shock your brain… Travel is certainly helpful and mind-stretching but I didn’t learn the same things traveling in other countries as I have living in Korea. Maybe it’s just me.

from foreign/er joy

Let's face it, sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the world. Especially if that world doesn't even have grass and is all covered in cement and cigarette butts.

Joy also says, here,

"I just hope I am always the forgiving expat who doesn't take Korea stuff personally."

a commenter at Gord Sellar says complaining about Korea for expats is a bit like people back home gossiping about their neighbours.
"Did you hear Tom did X yesterday!"
"Did you hear the nationalists did X yesterday!"

[update/correction: the commenter was actually talking about gaijin (foreigners) in Japan, talking about Japan the way neighbours at home talk about the other neighbours -- I wrote this post in a bit of a rush, and in my haste, skipped a few details on the context of this one. My bad.]

On the same comment board, Gord and I discuss the fact that, while it's important to get out of the house, there aren't as many hobby options here, because of language limitations, and the number of us being small enough that many niches (for example, the Star Trek Fanfic Writer's Workshop) don't quite have enough people here to reach a critical mass and form a group. Really, you should read that whole comment board: I don't know how Gord manages to get such cool people to comment on his posts.

from Ireallydolikekimchi's post:

In speaking of culture I don't believe there is a right and a wrong. I don't believe one culture is better than another. Culture just is. People in Korea eat kimchi, wear disguises in the summer to protect themselves from the sun, speak Korean, and drive like maniacs. Is this good or bad? I don't think you can put a judgement on this. (Well, maybe we can judge the driving.) It just is. I have to accept what I cannot change. And, yes, this is where the Serenity Prayer gets inserted. In my experience those who complain the loudest are those who cannot accept the way things are. As an expat, it's not up to me to create any change in a culture not my own. The Koreans are the ones doing the change as they see fit. And as has been noted elsewhere, Korea is changing rapidly.

At the Marmot's Hole, Granfallon muses,

One question for you both: I sometimes wonder if Korea’s emphasis on grouping and exclusivity contributes to expat complainers. Koreans, even at their friendliest, still draw a very obvious line in the sand when it comes to dealing with foreigners: “You can live here, but you’ll never be one of us.” Does this contribute towards making an oppositional expat identity? It sounds like I’m blaming Koreans for the stupid things expats say and do, which is kinda asinine. Still, can’t help but wonder.

SeeF, also at the Marmot, says,

I mean, bring up the word “beef” and “ESL” - Marmot gets 50+ comments yet on thoughtful, NON-argumentative posts that encourage actual - I dunno, THINKING - . . . go ignored by some of the most frequent (and coincidentally, usually the most vocal and vitriolic) commenters on this site. Ironic. Sadly, I think this shows that the people who need to read this set of articles the most are the ones who aren’t.

slim at the Marmot:

I found Korea a mostly fun and fascinating place to live during my 5+ years there (1987-89 and 2001-4) while occasionally carping about certain things, like lawless driving, trade protectionism and the resulting high prices, and effusive jingoism.
What troubles me now, from a distance, is the huge and glaring “integrity deficit” I see in all of Korea’s key institutions: the media, political and religious groups, unions and corporations.

Marmite Michael:

Here’s my two won:
I’m pretty consistent in my complaints about Korea–I want Koreans to make their society better for themselves, not for the perceived status of being an “advanced nation” in the eyes of others.

at Ask A Korean,
nathan said...
Why do expats complain so much? What else are we supposed to do, reflect on our own shortcomings and cultural limitations, grow as human beings and then apply the lessons learned abroad to our understanding of our own lives and home countries? Ha! As if.


Just thought I'd throw those into the mix.