If you're a fan of 3 Wise Monkeys, and don't like that I criticized them,
or if you think it's lame that I closed comments until I'd finished saying what I had to say,
you are invited to comment here, and call me a poopypants, and tell other commenters how right they are about my poopypantsiness, so that the other comment thread remains devoted to discussing what the way forward is for ATEK, if there is one.
It's not often I write a whole post just for one person. You know who you are. You're welcome.
[Update: that might have been the most passive aggressive sentence I've ever written. I apologize. You know who you are.]
Here. I'll start things off:
SOCKOSEYO I:
That Roboseyo sure is a poopypants. And passive-aggressive to boot! It must be because he's dishonest, ego-mad, and a jerk, and a bully, and a coward, those last two somehow simultaneously, and not because he's annoyed and fucking exhausted at having to revisit an ugly mess on which he already
SOCKOSEYO II: You sure are right, Sockoseyo 1! Allow me to cast more aspersions on his character!
14 comments:
roboseyo is the biggest, stinkiest, most diarrhea-esque poopypants i have ever witnessed!!!!! RAGE
(i must also let mr. poopypants know my captcha word was 'dapprest', and i would like to say i am offended it would offer such a word as robopoopeysayo is not dapper AT ALL)
I TOTALLY agree with you.
I heard that when he sees a cat in the street, if he has a rubber band in his pocket, sometimes he shoots the rubber band at the cat.
And one time, he littered.
I have proof.
Roboseyo is so un-dapper a new word should be invented. Maybe Dappless.
Hey, Rob, it’s your blog and you can do what you want here. I don’t know why anyone would complain if you want to spend several column inches casting insults and aspersions, questioning the veracity of someone’s account while giving no specific examples or error or mendacity – you can accuse people of trying to build hits on their site for nonexistent sponsors, if you want, and then you can drop the hint that YOU know the entire and true story, but you are too far above the fray to reveal all that you know. And you can even throw a little tantrum and call someone names because they “never even approached me for a fucking comment.”
Sure, you can do that. You can do all that. It’s your blog, and no one should try to tell you how to behave with it.
And then after having done all that you can squelch anyone who wants to confront you directly by closing the comments function, and a few days later you can make it look like anyone who criticizes what you are doing is worthy of humor. I don’t know how anyone would have a problem with any of that.
Well, okay, some people might. Some people might find that they don’t respect you as much as they did in the past. And that’s fine. It’s your blog. Why should anyone care if you are fair?
1. Roboseyo cannot, no matter how many times you explain it to him, understand the rules of Gin Rummy.
2. Roboseyo harbors lingering suspicions about the veracity of the moon landing.
3. Roboseyo is not his real name. It is Rob O'Seighaugh, and he is Irish Catholic, not Dutch Protestant.
4. Roboseyo used to drive around his high school parking lot in a rusted-out Karmann Ghia with Al Jarreau so loud on the stereo that the car would stall.
5. Roboseyo embezzled ATEK money. He used it to pay for an orphan's kidney transplant, but still.
6. Roboseyo puts cereal in after the milk.
7. When angered, Roboseyo tells you to "talk to the hand", at which point you may only relay messages through his puppet interpreter, Spiro.
8. Roboseyo proclaims love of all things, but I saw him put a centipede and a scorpion in a jar and shake it up real hard to make 'em fight.
9. Roboseyo huffs crayon fumes.
10. Roboseyo's passive-aggressiveness is so subtle that brings a calculator whenever he eats out just so he can calculate a 14.99% tip.
@holterbarbour regarding point 10 - I thought that's what the calculator watch was for.
A just discovered this series tonight.
You pretty much make me seethe with rage at how utterly senseless and bizarre your writing and your thinking in general is. It's vaguely recognizable as being generated in English, by a human male, but only just barely so.
I could go on and on. I will point out a few examples and then move on to another site before I am literally consumed with bile.
A) You accuse 3WM very explicitly in chasing after tabloid, exploitative stories (implying inaccuracy and bias in their reporting) in order to up their page views so they can make more money from their sponsors. Then you update:
"[Update: after a polite email from one of the Three Wise Monkeys, it's only fair to inform my readers that the advertisements on the side of the 3WM page are unpaid, and the site is, for now, non-profit. So add that to whatever you've already put in your pipe, and smoke it, too.]"
Um...what? How is this OK? You accused them of doing something shady and morally wrong, but then it was proven that in fact YOU were wrong. Doesn't that merit a somewhat stronger apology than "put that in your pipe and smoke it?" An apology generally includes the words "I'm sorry," not a recounting of the misdeed and "put that in your pipe and smoke it."
That's some classy stuff right there.
B) The absolute certainly you have of your own moral superiority is just nauseating. But as you are dragging the cross behind you, suffering for all our sins, here's a thought for you: You were equally as certain about your moral superiority while vehemently defending a former ATrEKker named T.H., a stance that you admit in this series made you look pretty silly. What I'm getting at here, is that you probably should be aware of the fact that you are wrong fairly often. You might even agree with that. But what I want you to understand is that you are wrong ALOT. Like constantly. More than most people. I almost wonder if your general odiousness and cluelessness combined with your absolute conviction isn't some sort of Joaquin Phoenix-like art project.
C) You accuse 3WM of muckraking, digging up old news for controversy, character assassination, and baseless rumor mongering. You essentially call it a non story. But you provide no evidence that any of their allegations are wrong, and in fact, if you read between the lines of your ATEK series, you seem to confirm that some seriously strange/shady stuff went down. So here's the question I have for you: Is the 3WM piece
a) A trashy non-story
or
b) A well researched and sourced investigative piece that is thought provoking and accurate enough to have caused the Korean Blogosphere to erupt this week (including spawning a four part series ON YOUR VERY OWN WEBSITE) and has apparently led to the resignation of the president of ATEK. Cuz it can't really be both, can it?
Your words seem to suggest you think it is "a" but your actions (and the actions of the other blog writers and the ATEK president) seem to think it is "b". So if it is "b", after you have accused them of publishing "a"...aren't they due another apology? C'mon brother, don't get stingy with your "put that in your pipe and smoke it" now!
Any response?
Ron: The answer to your question: Somewhere between A and B.
Just like the truth of the story is somewhere between A (3WM's narrative) and B (Oh Really's narrative in the 3WM comments, or ATEK's official account, if they ever release it).
Bobster: my account would not add any new information to what's already out there, between ATEK's account and 3WM's account. My interpretation of the facts is somewhere between the two versions, but I'm very satisfied with my policy so far of not pointing fingers specifically, nor naming names, on public record.
The point of the poopypants post is this, and I feel like you missed it:
Telling people they suck, how much, and why, doesn't get us any closer to figuring out what kind of organization, or what kind of non-organization initiatives, will help English teachers find the information they need, and provide a different accounting of themselves to the Korean media, than the one Anti-English Spectrum continues whispering in the ears of policy makers. And I'm tired of the "telling people they suck, how much, and why" conversation. It's asinine. It's repetitive. It's boring. it's the reason I didn't participate in the 3WM comment threads after part 1.
I don't give a damn who thinks I suck, and I don't give a damn who thinks who else sucks. I don't give a damn who thinks I suck. What I give a damn about is English teachers helping themselves, but I'm tired of writing about it, because of the way THIS happens. I'm TIRED of finger-pointing.
Now that I know more about the situation, I understand why the conversation went that way in Spring 2009, but I don't understand why it continues to go there now.
I dealt with this ATEK blowup last fall, internally in the organization. It was ugly and stupid and ego-driven then, and every morning I woke up dreading checking my e-mail. And nobody's hands were/are clean, not even mine, and it's ugly and stupid now. I think I was pretty clear in my first post that it sucked, and that everybody made mistakes, etc. Why do you think I'm excluding myself from the suck? Organizationally, ATEK had made adjustments so that no officer needs to go through what the Seoul Chair went through again, and that's good, because what happened to him, and the way it came about, was shitty.
And. I'm. Tired.
I don't give a damn about moral superiority... and I don't really give a damn if somebody who can operate a web browser tells me I suck donkey balls. I left ATEK in January and hoped I'd be finished with conversations like this.
BTW 3WM still got their views and notoriety, even if advertising money isn't at stake. So no, I don't feel like anything more than a corrective update is in order.
And where's your blog, Ron Mexico, so that I can go on it and tell you how often YOU are wrong?
Bobster;
I like your blog.
I like your writing. Most of the nice things I said about 3WM in part 1 were written with your contributions in mind.
I feel like I've given my pound of flesh to ATEK, and taken enough lumps from enough directions, that I've earned the right to set the terms for discussion about ATEK on my own fucking blog.
From part 1:
"Look for a few more posts on this, and then I'm done with this topic until ATEK, or another organization, is showing results worth reporting. ....
maybe English teachers in Korea deserve to drown in their own piss and vinegar. Fuck it. "
If you missed that these four posts are my exit from these discussions, because watching English teachers and expats cannibalize each other makes me hate the world, so it's obviously time for someone else to pick up the torch, I don't know what to say.
If you missed the fact that this post is a deflection, because that way part 4's comments don't get filled up with more soul-sucking finger-pointing and hate, I don't know what to say.
Do you think it's humorous that me calling myself a poopypants is the only way I can clear a space, over on that other comment thread, to ACTUALLY talk about something productive? I think it's sad.
It's also disappointing that there have been few comments there. If that's how disinterested people are in improving ATEK, then maybe it's time to pull the plug. I hope there's a good discussion about it going on somewhere else. And you can quote me on that anywhere you like.
I like this comment, at Chris in South Korea.
http://www.chrisinsouthkorea.com/2011/04/atek-at-a-crossroads-the-fallout-post-3wm/#comment-2776
Have a great day, and thanks for your comments
I'm a reasonable guy. How about this:
If the 3WM author publicly apologizes for insinuating I'm so stupid I can't even tell the difference between spiderman and batman, and that defending TH was the only contribution I made to discussions of ATEK in 2009, I'll publicly apologize for calling the writer a muckraker making a play for cheap, train-wreck hits.
Look, Rob, I wanna be clear: I've always respected this blog, and I've always been impressed with that fact that you've (nearly) always tried to use your online presence be positive and have an impact on the larger community. That's still true and it's not likely to change.
You just really fell down on this 3WMs thing, that's all. Get to know the simians and I suspect you'll come to realize they are all about community-building, which if I'm not mistaken has also always been your own forte. They might not always be going to publish the kind of thing you want to see or are interested in, same here for me, but that's pretty much what the word "alternative" means, innit?
HERE'S A COMMENT FROM BOBSTER WHICH WAS EATEN BY BLOGGER, AND WHICH HE E-MAILED TO ME
Look, Rob, here it is. You spent half of your first post in this series saying a lot of bad things about the 3WM webmagazine. Very negative, full-on attack mode – come on, you have to admit that. Some of the stuff you said was just plain erroneous, and I agree with others who say that the little snippet of a clarification put in after the fact was hardly sufficient when there is some much venom scattered about the place. And then you simultaneously made it impossible for anyone to challenge you until several days had gone by, unless they did so somewhere else.
First you very strongly indicate that the motivation behind the series was to drive up page views and create business for advertisers – you were wrong, and you know that now – then you cast very strong aspersions on the veracity of the piece: “That's not a narrative you should trust, folks.”
You probably thought you had good reasons, but it still doesn’t look cool, and I think you should try to understand how people might perceive it as malicious.
It sounds a lot like you are calling the author of the series, John Rodgers, a liar, and what’s more, someone who lies for base and commercial reasons. It sounds exactly like that, Rob. And that’s the part I have the most problems with – it’s a very serious thing to say, or even to imply.
Especially when we find out that, as you say now, “my account would not add any new information to what's already out there, between ATEK's account and 3WM's account.” The end result: 3WMs tells the truth, but don’t trust them.
You clearly meant it as an insult, but I don’t think muckraking is a dishonorable occupation. Upton Sinclair, Seymour Hersh, Julien Assange – it’s good company to be find oneself in, I would think, and John Rodgers would probably agree.
I’ve never blogged about ATEK. Perhaps I should do so, but I haven’t really cared very much about them, mostly because they haven’t cared about me. Their attitude about F-visa holders was clear from the start, and although there have been some adjustments over time to make long-termers more welcome, it is still a case of overcoming hurdles which ought never to have been there. They have consistently failed to make themselves relevant, and lately they appear to be dangerous. I find I’d rather blog about my cat, or Lotteria’s latest weird food.
Thanks for your comment, Bobster, and I appreciate your input, and that you've stuck with it to get this comment up.
I'll think carefully about what you've said.
I strongly believe that the same facts can be given very different meanings depending on who is constructing the narrative -- my first ever graduate level history course has left me with no doubt about the fact a group of historians who view a set of data, dates, events and occurrences can have wildly different views about the meaning of those facts and view. Apparently Korean historical academic conferences are known to involve shouting matches from time to time. This can also be seen by reading the 3WM post immediately after the ATEK piece. And yeah, my view of the individuals and the organizational issues brought out by this series -- that is, my interpretation of the events and happenings on record -- lies comfortably between the two perspectives. The former Seoul Chair would probably be surprised how often I defended him/his case during meetings... a lot of people had dug in their heels by the time investigative procedures had been developed, and were starting to be implemented. But now that ATEK's official account is out, I think that ATEK now needs to be left alone to regroup, reorganize, and have some time to unfuck itself if it can, in order to start reporting positive results, rather than having to expend all its resources defending itself.
The "official ATEK version" is now up on the ATEK website
and can be viewed here
http://atek.or.kr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=435:quarterly-report-for-april-2011&catid=41:top-headlines
With specific reference to the conflict of interest issues here
http://atek.or.kr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=434
but no reference to what shall forever be known as "the phone call"
or this.
http://thethreewisemonkeys.com/2011/04/04/atek-the-great-white-hoax-pt-3/#comment-61125
and that last bit there is troubling to me.
Surprisingly through all this, I have word that even in the month of all this bad press, ATEK posted a net gain of members.
And yeah, I'll own up.
Part 1 was me at... maybe the angriest I've ever been on Blogoseyo. I was called "juvenile" "inept" and "sophomoric" and it was implied that I can't tell the difference between Batman and Spiderman, and that my only role in ATEK discussions in 2009 was as a certain guy's butt buddy, and I got defensive. Fair call.
One word...
children
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